The Racial Wealth Gap: A Conversation with Professor Richard Mansfield

Welcome And Defining Community Wealth

Yessica Holguin 0:01

Hello, my name is Yessica Holguin. Welcome to The Wealth We Build, a show that uplifts the voices of community leaders, entrepreneurs, organizers, and institutional champions who are taking bold collective action to close the racial wealth gap. Today, we're diving into the wealth gap to explore who's tracking it and what those numbers are. I'm joined by Professor Richard Mansfield. He is a labor economist in the Department of Economics at the University of Colorado Boulder, with a bachelor's in economics from Harvard University and a master's and PhD in economics from Yale. Richard has the chops to break it all down for us. Richard is also affiliated scholar with the National Bureau of Economic Research, or NBER for short, a private nonprofit organization that facilitates cutting-edge research and analysis of major economic issues. Welcome, Richard. (Thank you for having me). It's such an honor to have you here. I wish we had a lot more time, but want to dive into it. Before we do, I want to ask, what does community wealth mean for you?

Prof. Richard Mansfield 1:04

I think it's partly the assets of the members of the community, including the houses they own, the financial wealth that they have stored in stocks and bonds, et cetera, maybe any public lands that the local government owns. But I think a little bit more broadly than that, it's also all the knowledge that the potential workers have in that community that they could bring to bear, that they could use, that they could trade for additional wages, additional salary. And I think maybe even more deeply the relationships among the community members that potentially gives them resilience when things are going wrong, people they can turn to to help when they need it. I think that's still kind of a form of wealth. If we think of the point of wealth is to allow us to have more fulfilling lives and lives with less pain than they otherwise would, all of these potential assets should count, including this kind of social capital would be the economist term for those relationships that you can use to improve the quality of your life.

Yessica Holguin 2:02

I love it. That's exactly how we think about it. Is that financial plays a very critical component, but it's not the all, right? There's a social capital that is so critical for the well-being of our communities. So tell me a little bit about how your journey started and why you're so passionate about the economy.

Why Economics Starts With Work

Prof. Richard Mansfield 2:20

So when I first started college many years ago, I signed up for a freshman seminar called The Economist View of the World. Um and they basically went through all these cutting-edge issues. At the time, it was like Napster and file downloads and environmental policies and things like that. And they took each sort of high-profile public policy issue and broke it down from an economics perspective. And I was basically hooked. And I knew my major from that point forward, and I went from there. And I think what I liked about economics is that it was the closest thing within social science to a natural science in the sense that the formality of the discipline, the willingness and requirement of making mathematical models, forced you to be rigorous about how you generated your hypotheses. And as a result, what are the testable implications of what you're proposing? And even if those testable implications are almost always falsifiable with real-world data in the economy, so our predictions are never correct. At least there was a mechanism for improving them. Because you could say, okay, this prediction turned out to be wrong in this way. What assumption must be false in my original model to have generated such lousy predictions? And so you write down a new model that relaxes that assumption, generates new predictions, and there's at least a way to improve our predictions, even if we're never going to be as accurate with them as the natural sciences.

Yessica Holguin 3:47

Why?

Prof. Richard Mansfield 3:48

Because I think workers in the labor market more generally is the key to understanding why some people lead sort of fulfilling happy lives and others don't. And it's both through their ability to pay for the things that they need, but also how much of their time is spent paying for the things that they need. So much of our lives are spent at work. It's really important to understand not just how much are you getting compensated for that work, but how much are you enjoying the experience, what determines the kinds of work conditions you end up with, what determines how long you work, what determines your work schedule, what determines the kinds of people you deal with there that you meet that become your friends. So I think so much of what ends up determining our happiness gets filtered through our work lives, including sometimes meeting spouses as well.

Yessica Holguin 4:34

Yeah, definitely, especially for some of our population. So

What The 2022 Wealth Data Says

Yessica Holguin 4:40

the federal government conducts the survey of consumer finances every three years or so, and perhaps the most widely used source of studying income and wealth inequality in the US. I understand that the last survey was in 2022. Can you share what you know about the racial wealth gap and the key findings from 2022?

Prof. Richard Mansfield 4:59

Sure. Yeah, they're fielding a new survey in the last couple of years, but new results aren't out yet. So uh look out for those later on in 2026 or 2027. But from the 2022 survey, we learned that the average wealth gap has more or less held steady, and if anything, has actually increased. So, what is the average wealth gap between black and white households? It's basically add up all the wealth of all of the black people, essentially, uh, and the households associated with them, divide it by the number of black people, compare that to the aggregate wealth of all of the white-led households divided by the number of white people, um, and that ratio is about six to one. So the total wealth per person among white people is about six times as high as the total wealth per person among black people, which is one way to think about it. Now that's highly influenced by the richest people. So Elon Musk is generating a huge amount of the aggregate wealth in sort of the white column, if you will. And so the right tail, we call it of the distribution, the really, really rich people can kind of skew that number. But I still think that's quite important for understanding political power, who can make donations, who can influence the kinds of decisions that are made by governments. So I think that average wealth gap is really important. Another way of measuring the wealth gap is what's called the median gap. And so you can think about the typical, let's say, uh white person or black person in the 50th percentile of the distribution, where there are as many people who have more wealth than them as people who have less wealth than them. And so if you take that person in the middle of the distribution and the black population, in the middle of the distribution and the white population, uh the white person would have six times as much wealth as the black person. Um so not actually we're at 10 times as much wealth. Excuse me. 10 times as much wealth. So the average wealth gap was about six to one. The median wealth gap is ten to one. Um and so that's partly because the median black household tends to have very little wealth. In fact, about 30 to 40 percent of black households have no wealth. They're actually in debt. Um and so there's really, really large gaps for kind of typical people that may be even above and beyond what you might see if you aggregated all the wealth together.

Yessica Holguin 7:19

Well, and when you remove the Elon Musk's of the world and the Oprah Winfrey's of the world, this is what we end up with.

Prof. Richard Mansfield 7:27

Yeah, so 10 to 1 is maybe statistic you might want to take away.

Yessica Holguin 7:31

Yeah, that's significant. When we think about the what this actually means, that's significant. Because as you mentioned, this is who has the time and who has the power to influence. Um yeah, I was shocked to read that the white family's median net worth was at $285,000. Uh, for Hispanic families, it was at $61,600. And for black families, it was only $44,900.

Prof. Richard Mansfield 7:59

And so that's as a large share with basically negative wealth who are in debt.

Yessica Holguin 8:04

Yeah, and I mean I am so I can't wait to see the results from the from this last uh survey because I am curious with inflation and with the impact that we've had in the last 18 months, what that's gonna do to our to our economy and our our households. Um so the research shows that black households experienced a 60% jump in net worth from 2019 to 2022, um, which sounds good, but it resulted in a wider dollar gap because white families started from a much higher place. Um the actual uh gap grew by $50,000. Um

Home Equity Versus Stocks And Liquidity

Yessica Holguin 8:47

let's get into the reasons for this. Um we know that the heavy reliance on home equity is a significant uh contributor. Uh welfare black and white Hispanic families are is really close to their homes. And so as we see the fluctuation in uh in home prices and in the market, that can have a significant impact. So tell me a little bit more about that.

Prof. Richard Mansfield 9:10

Yeah, so among black families that do have wealth, uh relative to white families, black families disproportionately hold that wealth in the form of home equity. Um, and home prices have generally gone up fairly fast uh over the last few years, certainly between 2019 and 2022. Um, and so there was some wealth creation for the black families who own their own homes. Uh, but many of the wealthiest white families disproportionately had held held their wealth in the form of stocks. Um, and stocks grew even faster in their value than homes did. And so that's part of the reason that the wealth gap, if anything, has started to diverge again over the last not just five or six years, but maybe twenty or thirty years, is because the return on stocks has been even higher over that time period than the return on housing. Um and a very disproportionate share of equity value is owned by white people.

Yessica Holguin 10:08

Yeah. And when you think about the liquidity of it, it's not like you can just take your equity out of your house and not being in a difficult situation. So

Cash Reserves Debt Traps And Discrimination

Yessica Holguin 10:18

um so when we talk about cash reserves, uh two-thirds of black and Hispanic households do not have enough liquid savings to live at the poverty level for three months. What can you add about cash reserves?

Prof. Richard Mansfield 10:34

Um I think there are several mechanisms that are generating that result. Some of it is a pretty high incarceration rate where you're unlikely to have any cash reserves. Um, some of it is a very high unemployment rate, particularly among uh black adults without college degrees, where their labor market has really eroded over the last 20 or 30 years. Um, they have some of the lowest employment rates. And so obviously, if you're not making any money or your only money is coming from uh welfare programs, you're generally never going to be able to save anything. You're usually spending almost every dollar you get in order to make ends meet. And so I think a lot of this stems back to the fact that A, black families have never had a lot of wealth to begin with, going all the way back to the Civil War. There's some beautiful research by Alora Daranancourt at Princeton, who's followed the evolution of the black-white wealth gap all the way back to the Civil War with the best available data, and you can see that basically there's never been a point in time when uh a very high percentage of black families had meaningful wealth. Um, and so there was never any cash built up from past generations, and then black families have struggled to get access to education of a sufficient quality, and because maybe they didn't have access historically, maybe the parents don't have quite as much uh built-up skills to send down to the next generation. So black families have struggled to kind of gain the skills they needed during the educational portion of their career. They've struggled to get an additional get an initial job offer, struggled to get callbacks from potential resumes, and there's been a bunch of nice research. Audit studies where they send identical resumes, perhaps with black sounding names instead of white-sounding names, and look at differences in callbacks for literally identical resumes and find that black callback rates are you know 30 to 50 percent lower. This was from maybe 15 or 20 years ago, was kind of a landmark study of this. But if you don't have the opportunity to generate the skills you need early in your life, you struggle to use the skills you have to get an initial job. You might struggle to get a promotion if you're having a harder time getting a mentor, for example, in a firm that's mostly white. Um, and you might struggle to get outside offers if you don't have a network of other people you know who are well placed at firms who might be able to get you a job when the job shows up. So all of these factors compound uh and leave a lot of black families behind.

Yessica Holguin 13:12

Yeah, and then when you think about the extractive products in the market that capitalize on that, so low low reserves can potentially mean high interest payday loans, right? And so then that becomes more of a a survival mechanism, but it puts him in a very difficult position.

Prof. Richard Mansfield 13:34

Yeah, that's right. It's hard to get out of debt when the interest rate keeps on getting higher as you fall behind payments default, and then the only loans you can get are at an even higher rate, uh, and you can get stuck in a bit of a poverty trap that way.

The K Shaped Economy And Profits

Yessica Holguin 13:45

Predatory practices are definitely not helping. Um so I've heard about the K economy, where simply stated, the rich get richer, the poor get poorer. Um It seems as if we are.

Prof. Richard Mansfield 13:58

I mean, there's a few ways to think about the K economy. One is to think about are the people who are already wealthy getting wealthier. Another way to think about it are the people who are already have high income, maybe not accumulated wealth, are the high income people getting even more high income. Um or you can think about are the old who already have high income diverging away from the young. And I think all of those things are true. It's been a tough labor market for young people finding jobs, but for those who already have jobs, there hasn't been that much firing yet. Uh and I think one of the big drivers of the K economy right now has been the share of national income that goes to workers rather than you can think about as owners, landlords, or people who own firms. And basically the share of national income that is going to workers in the form of pay is lower than it's been, I think, almost since we've been recording it, certainly in the last 60 or 70 years. And so more and more of the money is going to people who own things. Um of course those people are already at the top of the wealth distribution. But I think you shouldn't necessarily think about this as people with high salaries diverging from people with low salaries, although that could happen in some cases, but it's even more so. People who don't have salaries because they own the assets. And it's been the landlords who are enjoying higher uh rent rent that they can collect. It's been business owners or people who own um large amounts of stocks, equity shares in big companies. Um, they've been experiencing big returns because basically we've had a huge amount of profits. Um of those profits might reflect true decreases in the cost of doing business, but some of that is um consolidation of big firms in a way that reduces the competition they face so that they can basically increase prices without worrying about being undercut by competitors that no longer exist. Um so when that happens, the prices are way beyond whatever the costs are, including the cost of labor. Um a lot of that profit goes to either the business owner, him or herself, if it's a private company, or lots of shareholders who are disproportionately already wealthy. Uh, this is a publicly health company.

Yessica Holguin 16:01

Wow.

Speculation Bubbles And Wealth Gap Whiplash

Yessica Holguin 16:02

What role does speculation play in all of this?

Prof. Richard Mansfield 16:06

Yeah, so I there's certainly been a big run-up in stock prices in the last several years. And so right now, sort of the paper wealth of the wealthy people looks extremely large. Um not all of that is fully liquid. Sometimes these are stock options that they own and they can't actually cash in on it for a certain amount of time. Um but there's certainly many people in the economy who are closer to finance experts than I than I am, who are worried about a possible bubble if some of the AI investments don't pay off. Not necessarily because AI doesn't become sufficiently profitable, but if the particular companies that made the enormous AI investments that have seen their stock prices balloon don't end up getting a return on those investments, you could still see dramatic uh reductions in um asset values. This is sort of what happened in the Great Depression. You saw a bit of a decrease in the black-white wealth gap because the white people owned all of the big companies and then the stock market collapsed. Right. And so this wasn't because so the drop in the gap wasn't because the black people were doing so much better. It's just that the um the white population came back down.

Yessica Holguin 17:15

Yeah, everyone.

Prof. Richard Mansfield 17:16

So it certainly could happen.

School Inputs Trade Shocks And Job Ladders

Yessica Holguin 17:18

Um so your research dives into studying workers and the labor market. Um do you see racial gaps in your work as well?

Prof. Richard Mansfield 17:27

I do. So one of the first papers that I wrote that got me my first professor job was actually, before the labor market even begins, looking at the discrepancies in access to good high school inputs, specifically teachers, and looking at whether there are big differences in teacher quality across schools in general, but particularly among those that are have concentrated black student populations. And I actually didn't find that that was a major factor driving gaps in uh preparation for the labor market. So there are really big gaps in average test scores between black and white students. And so one hypothesis is maybe they're getting access to uh inferior teachers. And at least what I found is that that wasn't, it's true, but it's not true at the kind of scale that would explain the large skill gaps that come in. Um and I think this is because it's um hard to figure out how good a teacher is going to be when you hire them. And at least in public schools with unions, it's hard to fire them after you figure out they're bad. So, in some sense, actually, if we had less maybe union protection, there might be more sorting of better teachers to environments they think of as cushy. Um and so it could become a problem in the future. But I didn't find teachers are the main driving factor, but nonetheless, I did find that there was a huge difference in average test scores, which many people have documented, which is sort of already starting the black population at a disadvantage. It's it's a sign that they're gonna struggle to get into a college, and a college's degree has increasingly been a valuable resource for getting a job in the kind of um career that has big-time earnings growth. But it's also a suggestion that underlying skills aren't being developed, that even if you don't go to college, uh, you might not be a good enough communicator, for example, as part of what these um verbal scores are sort of measuring. And so I do think there are these big gaps that begin very early in life, even you know, five to six years old and just keep on growing over the educational career, um, that are sort of setting up black students to kind of fail in the labor market to or at least not thrive to the extent that they could. Um and then some of my other research has looked at how major shocks to labor demand in the economy end up trickling down to worker employment and earnings outcomes. So, for example, the huge influx of um Chinese imports. So there's sort of big concerns that this has kind of undermined the manufacturing sector, hollowed up the middle class, et cetera. And these are the kinds of firms and industries and workers who are initially targeted, these are the kinds of firms that are closing. But part of what I've found from my research is that oftentimes the most vulnerable workers are not the ones whose firms are directly targeted. Uh, it's the ones at the bottom of the job ladder, if you will, the ones who are struggling to gain a foothold who end up being the most vulnerable. And the idea is that if manufacturing workers get laid off, they often have a lot of accumulated experience and skills. They outcompete workers who are newer to the labor market, who have never had a chance to gain that kind of experience for the jobs they would have had. And oftentimes firms that are declining, they don't lay off the workers they had. They already invested so much in training these workers, they're up to speed. What they do is they stop hiring, which is actually what we're seeing in the labor market right now. Firms are really slowing down hiring even though they're not raising firing rates. And so if you think that one of the major problems that the black communities had is getting kind of an initial foothold, getting that first good quality job, then actually a lot of the burden falls on people who weren't at the targeted firms but would have gotten jobs at those firms had they not experienced greater, for example, competition from Chinese products.

Yessica Holguin 21:06

Yeah. I mean, when you think about the impact, uh having less experienced teachers, perhaps. And then we talk about the lack of resources in their communities. Yeah, it is there is a reason why I, you know, having grown up in a low-income family, Latino family, I didn't necessarily have the networks, right? So I had to start, I had to figure it out on my own. Exactly. And so to think about where one of my friends was like, oh, just call my dad and I'll I'll get an internship at his company and then I'll go to the next. And and yeah, of course there's a very significant difference. And so um, and the the ripple effects of that at the end of the yeah, exactly.

Prof. Richard Mansfield 21:44

It's not just about getting a job, it's about avoiding a dead end job, getting a job that has a promotion path to it.

Yessica Holguin 21:49

Exactly. My mom worked at a fast food restaurant, exactly. That was my network. Exactly. That was the that's the paying uh potential, whereas his was a medical company. So it y you think About just the uh the the social capital and the role that that that plays in somebody's well-being is is incredible.

What Could Actually Close The Gap

Yessica Holguin 22:08

But um so as an economist, what do you think needs to happen for us to close the racial wealth gap?

Prof. Richard Mansfield 22:16

I think it's gonna be a difficult task and it's gonna take time even in the best of worlds, even if you but I think we our goal should be to start converging instead of diverging at the very least. And try to generate a reasonable rate of convergence, like we had between you know 1960 and 1980. A lot of the research shows that was then maybe the best period for convergence between black and white, um, other than literally after the Civil War when they started from nothing. And I think part of what happened there was a lot of government jobs got created, and there was affirmative action that made sure that the black population got uh a reasonable shake at getting one of those jobs. And so certainly the Supreme Court has kind of ruled against affirmative action, but there was a lot of evidence of a really nice paper by Conrad Miller showing that the firms that were kind of forced to hire equitably as they're being regulated due to new laws, actually, even after they stopped getting regulated, even after no one was paying attention they're hiring, once they had learned how to hire black workers, they kept hiring them, uh, at least at higher rates than they did before. So this was actually an effective mechanism for getting firms to change their behavior. Um, but even in the absence of affirmative action, I think that the possibility of generating more government jobs has been a bit overlooked. I think historically economists were concerned that this was going to crowd out private sector jobs that might be more productive, that would be better in line with what customers actually wanted. But I think there's an argument that there are a whole number of sort of sectors that were where there are important services that aren't being provided by anybody right now. Um where the economy is naturally not going, if it's a market failure, where the economy is naturally not gonna provide these services. One of the classic versions is sort of green technology where we think that there's not a lot of incentive for the polluters to pollute less if they're not gonna bear the cost of it. But I think another example of this, so certainly you could have um the government hiring a bunch of people setting up new stations for um charging electric cars, for example, or improving our power network. But I think another example of this is social services, where almost all of the services that go to people who have major mental health problems, or even sometimes physical health problems, and Medicaid doesn't totally cover it, um a lot of the social workers who are doing those services are government workers and they're often totally overwhelmed with caseloads. And so you think, in terms of like what is the expenditure of taxes that might generate the greatest reduction in human suffering per dollar, you can think making sure that the people who are really struggling the most in life have somebody who can help them. That seems incredibly valuable. And those are basically government jobs because if these people have no money, there's gonna be no business plan that's gonna be profitable that's gonna involve selling services to these people. And so not only do they have no money, if they have really no mechanism for making any money because they have debilitating uh in injuries or mental health issues, then I think the only way to improve their happiness is through government spending. Um but of course that's gonna require generating tax revenue from all the companies that are landing outrageous profits right now, and they've been very good at hiding wealth in some cases, um, or negotiating lower tax rates through some lobbying. And so part of the problem is that I think a lot of the best mechanisms for uh reducing the wealth gap might require some redistribution through the tax system, but our tax system is getting increasingly ill-equipped to solve the problem because we used to generate taxes by uh and we still do by taxing people with high earnings from jobs, but we don't tax um income from capital gains and from owning companies at quite the same rate. And so we're kind of undermining our tax base. A larger share of national income, as I was saying earlier, is going to owners of businesses and of land.

Yessica Holguin 26:14

Yeah. Yeah, it's gonna be interesting to what to see what happens in Colorado this November because there could be some potential for shifts in our economy. Um There's so much there. I know that we're almost out of time, but um what in terms of their uh your research in labor markets, what do you see as a future for the labor market?

AI Risks New Jobs And Lower Startup Costs

Prof. Richard Mansfield 26:38

Yeah, I mean, so some of this is going beyond my research now because my research was not in AI, but I think it's hard to forecast the future of the labor market without thinking seriously about the implications of AI. Um my research does help me think about who ends up bearing the burden of shocks to labor demand. And there's been almost, you know, potential size of this shock could be really big, almost unprecedented, at least since back in the Industrial Revolution. And so I think one of the keys is to figure out, well, the first layer of this is whose jobs are being targeted by future AI advances. And there's some reason to believe this might be white-collar workers who might be disproportionately white workers. And so at first glance, it looks like this might actually lower the racial gap. But as I was saying before, the way to think about this is a lot of the displaced workers who either don't get hired for this job or get fired from the job that they have, as a legal assistant or a radiologist or whatever it might be, they might still be sufficiently qualified, they might have enough fancy degrees, they might be sufficiently good communicators, that they can get some other job. Um so I'm still worried that even if AI targets the kinds of occupations that have traditionally been disproportionately white, there still might be major ramifications for black people that kind of trickles down. And certainly there are many, many black workers as well in white-collar occupations who are in real trouble. But I think you know, if you want to have a more optimistic view of this, there are also some possible new jobs that could that could get created by new AI technologies. Um, one version of this is that it might be much less costly than it used to be to start a new business. So if you imagine one of the keys to being having an effective startup is making sure that customers actually know about your product, which means a marketing campaign, which used to mean major outlays of money to hire a marketing firm or to create even just one advertisement paying for advertisements on the radio or the TV or whatever, now AI can generate AI can generate a pretty decent advertisement very quickly and very cheaply, and they could even customize it for different subpopulations of customers you want to reach. And so if part of the problem that black entrepreneurs face in the past was that they're struggling to get the kinds of loans you needed to get a foothold, because you need a large amount of money to advertise your potential business, well now you might need that and not need that big loan anymore because you a lot of that loan was being spent on marketing, and now you can do your own marketing at least moderately well for very cheap. So maybe the cost of starting a business is going to go down, and that's an example of someplace where you could generate new jobs that didn't exist before. I think the other mechanism is that if all these firms are laying off workers because the AI is more productive per dollar than a worker is, then the cost of producing products for these firms must be going down. And so some wealth is being generated somewhere. That's why these AI firms, these technology firms have such enormous valuations right now, is because there are huge profits to be made. And so the question is what's gonna happen there? Well, one version of this is that a bunch of rich owners are gonna make yet more money and slightly rich less peop ri less rich people who own shares in those, but they're still gonna spend that money somewhere. Uh they're gonna invest in something, or they're gonna spend for their yacht or their additional health services, and those are jobs for somebody. And you can already see that a lot of the job growth recently has been in the health sector, uh, partly due to an aging population, but that suggests that there's a whole bunch of jobs to be had as nurses and as nursing home aids and things like that. So there could be a lot of labor market opportunities there. Um the other way to think about this is even if these industries are more competitive and the firms can't just uh pocket all of the increased profit margins, suppose this gets competed away in the form of lower prices now that the cost of producing products are lower. Well, if there are lower prices for people for some of their goods and services they were buying before, that's more money left in their pocket to buy other stuff. Um that other stuff could generate uh job gains. So even if a whole bunch of workers get laid off in exactly the areas that AI is targeting, there could, there are natural economic mechanisms uh that could generate new employment opportunities elsewhere. So I think that's kind of the positive take

Final Thanks And Where To Learn More

Prof. Richard Mansfield 30:47

on it.

Yessica Holguin 30:47

Well, Rick, Richard, thank you so much for uh giving us that hope. Um and thank you so much for being here today. I truly appreciate having this conversation. Um, hoping that we might invite you back when we get the updated results and process it together. Um and to you all, thank you for tuning in today for more information on Center for Community Wealth, including our free services for entrepreneurs, small businesses, cooperatives, community-owned and benefiting real estate projects. Please visit our website, communitywealth.org, or find us on social media, CCWB Denver on Instagram and Facebook, and CCWB on LinkedIn. Thank

Credits

Yessica Holguin 31:26

you.

Julie Jackson 31:26

The Wealth We Build is produced by Center for Community Wealth and hosted by Jessica Ogin. This episode's featured guest was Professor Richard Mansfield from CU Boulder. This episode was directed, produced, and edited by Julie Jackson. Crew support and teleprompter by Joel Newton. Music and graphics by Motion Array with theme song Fly a Trip by Diego Martinez. Special thanks to Patrick Jackson and Elena Vascones and Center for Community Wealth Board of Directors, Asia Dorsey, Kay Vaughn, Kalatfari Limaki, C. Shanahan. For more information, visit our website, CommunityWealth.org, filmed and recorded at Denver Community Media. All rights reserved.

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