The Price of Fairness: A Candid Conversation about Local Purchasing

Why Local Purchasing Matters

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Yessica Holguin 0:03

Hello, my name is Jessica Oygin. Welcome to The Wealth We Build, a show that uplifts the voices of community leaders, entrepreneurs, organizers, and institutional champions who are taking bold collective action to close the racial wealth gap. Today, we're going to talk about one of the key pillars of our work, local purchasing, which has measurable and proven impact in multiple studies showing that it generates more local revenue, creates jobs, and strengthens public services. Have you heard of the local multiplier? It means each dollar spent locally generates more than the total economic activity than a dollar spent in a chain store or restaurant. For example, one dollar spent at a locally a local business can produce $2.35 in local economic output after one year. This happens because local businesses pay bills, they purchase from one another, pay local wages, and keep their profits locally. So let's hear from those working directly in our local economy and have a candid conversation about what's working and what can be better when it comes to local procurement. Today I'm joined by amazing entrepreneurs Center for Community Wealth has been working with for years. Please welcome Janita Medina. We're really excited to have Adrian Anderson and Veronica Sarah. And we have Silvia Hernandez, and they're going to be sharing a little bit about their business. I also have uh Jervis DeCico here with us talking about our anchor institutions. So welcome

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Defining Community Wealth

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Yessica Holguin 1:35

everyone. Before we jump in, we ask this of everybody. So, what does community wealth mean to you and your business?

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Johnitta Media 1:44

Are you looking in my direction? Yeah. For me, community wealth is the opportunity for um families and institutions to work together to create a common goal and a common good, the ability to create um good trouble, good change in our communities. Thank you.

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Silvia Hernandez 2:09

For me, it's like yes working together as a community, helping each other feel something good for our families. That's a community for me.

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Yessica Holguin 2:20

Thank you.

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Veronica Sare 2:21

I would like to uh I feel that it's the same that Johnitta and Sylvia have said that community wealth is something that everybody benefits from. It's something that stays in our community and it is wealth because it helps everybody. So together it's an impactful uh change.

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Adrian Anderson 2:43

I three that I'm on that same boat, yes.

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Jervis Di Cicco 2:50

That's such a good question. To me, community wealth is organizations and communities working together to create a sustainable, uh powerful economy that uh is not just providing economic opportunity for everyone, but is also feeding other aspects of well-being and giving communities the opportunity to not just own their assets, but have uh uh some some say in how those assets are distributed.

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Yessica Holguin 3:20

Yeah,

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What Anchor Institutions Are

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Yessica Holguin 3:21

thank you. Well, I'm really excited to be here and hear about Momma Jahs, about La Catrina Grill, about Meets and Sweets. But before we get started, I want to have a little conversation about anchor institutions. And tell us more what anchor institutions are and the role that they play in our local economy, or they can play.

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Jervis Di Cicco 3:40

Yeah, anchor institutions are the easiest way to think about them is your local rooted institutions that couldn't easily relocate or rehire. So think about government entities, the state of Colorado, the city and county of Denver, large uh higher education institutions, CU, MSU Denver, DU, and then healthcare would be another leg of that stool. So UC Health, Denver Health. Uh even some national healthcare organizations are anchors because they can't just pick up a hospital and move it. Uh and then on top of that, you could add infrastructure like Denver Water and the Denver Airport. So those are all examples of local anchor institutions, and they all have sufficient economic scale to help build community wealth.

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Yessica Holguin 4:28

Thank you. Yeah, there's no tax incentive that Kansas can give the University of Colorado, right? So they are staying in place, and they benefit from our local infrastructure and our local taxes. So we should expect a little bit more from that. I have so many questions for you all.

Meet The Local Food Entrepreneurs

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Yessica Holguin 4:45

But give me the elevator spill of your business.

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Johnitta Media 4:49

Okay, well, my name is Johnitta Medina. I'm the executive chef and CEO of Momma Jahs. We're a premium plant-based soul food catering company here in Denver, Colorado. Um, we specifically uh specialize in a fusion, Caribbean, and Deep American South. Um, and everything we do is plant forward. We like to say we are green on purpose. Um, we produce plant-based products to help create sustainability in our environment and for the health of our communities. Thank you.

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Silvia Hernandez 5:23

Silvia? Oh, my name is Silvia Hernandez. I am the owner of La Katrina Grill and also Silvia's Kitchen. I specialize on Mexican cuisine made from scratch, uh, traditional dishes, really recipes for my family from Mexico City, from Oaxaca, from Puerto Vallarta. I am everything in the business, the owner, the chef, the accounting, the everything. So, yes, that that does me.

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Veronica Sare 5:53

Yeah. Adrian and Veronica?

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Adrian Anderson 5:55

Well, I'm Adrian, I'm the "meats".

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Veronica Sare 5:56

I'm Veronica on the "sweets".

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Adrian Anderson 5:57

And together we own "meats and sweets".

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Veronica Sare 6:00

We are a hickory-smoked Kansas City style uh small business. Uh we started in Aurora, Colorado outside of our homes. We were we had the kids flying the science barbecue today, and um from that we've grown to a bistro, a food truck, and now we're focusing on catering with the hope to one day have a brick and mortar.

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Yessica Holguin 6:26

That's really exciting. Thank you so much.

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When Buyers Push For Discounts

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Yessica Holguin 6:29

So we're here, we want to talk a little bit about um some of the issues that have arisen with local purchasing. And so, have you experienced any situations where organizations or entities, institutional buyers have asked you to lower the price? Um, what was that like? Um, did you do it? What happened? And what impact did that have on you all?

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Johnitta Media 6:53

Unfortunately, yes. Like, I would love to be like, no, that's never ever happened. They always wanted to pay the price.

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Adrian Anderson 7:01

Yeah, never mind.

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Johnitta Media 7:02

Um but unfortunately, yes, and because small businesses have individuals behind them, not huge corporations, not boards. Um you're telling me, the the person who puts all of this hard work in, that's um you're not willing, you're not willing to pay me what I know my product is worth, um, because we are in the economic system that everybody else is in as well. It's uh it's really topsy-turvy. One day things are one price, the other day things are another price. And um we really painstakingly like create our prices for our menus. We don't desire to like raise our price all the time, even though when you go to the grocery store, every time you go, the prices increased. Every time you come back to our business, um, we would love to keep maintain a lower price. And I think for the most part, most of us we're not we're not uh you know inflating our prices or anything like that to make huge profits. I think sometimes uh the psychological uh the psyche behind maybe some of purchasing is um when we're not used to dealing with individuals, we're used to dealing with corporations and entities. And uh I would love if we brought some of that humanity back into the way that we, you know, service each other and purchase from each other. It's um it's a relationship that you build when you work with a small business. So keeping that in mind, you know.

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Adrian Anderson 8:40

I feel CCW helps us do that too by put giving us that courage that we need to be able to go to these places, you know, and hold our head up high and be like, hey, you know, I know what I'm worth. You know, um I appreciate you, you know, not even appreciate, but you know, you're coming at us is you know, you're immediately defensive, immediately, you know, because somebody's telling you something that isn't okay. Um, we've dealt with it a couple times.

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Veronica Sare 9:04

Unfortunately, and it's something that I don't know if maybe people have like a stigmatism against, or maybe it's just something that they're prejudiced against and think, well, they don't have this major corporation that's funding them, you know, so I don't I don't know where they think that these prices come from, but we don't just grab them out of the air, you know. Not at all. You know, and and just recently, unfortunately, we had to cut a cost out that was our pay because they weren't expecting it. And, you know, we had to give them the the knowledge that this is something that we do have, that this is something that you know is for multiple uses in our business. And it's unfortunate that they're so set on a price that it's something that would probably deter them from either ordering again or you know, give them a bad taste in their mouth, which you know, for us that that's our bread and butter right now. They're not doing that with Panero or McDonald's, you know, they're yeah, it's to click, I'm gonna order, I know what I'm gonna buy, you know. And and we try to have those sales where, you know, Labor Day weekend, you know, we want to give a family a four a dinner or something, you know. So we run specials, but it's not gonna be on your catering.

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Silvia Hernandez 10:12

Right. Yeah, in my case, I I was feeling like um disrespectful or I don't know how to explain it. Because uh everyone thinks like, you know, to making a taco shouldn't be that expensive. I don't know, people think like Mexican food can be cheap for a reason, but it's not. No, I make them from scratch. I buy the same supplies in everyone's places. Yeah so when people ask me, oh you know, in this place they have the taco $1.50, I said, okay, mine is three dollars. See, mine is three dollars. And I really keep trying to keep them my prices for even if the prices go up and things, I try to keep them stable. So, and unless I doing that, I feeling like people don't respect Mexican food. It's what I feel, it's my feeling.

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Johnitta Media 11:05

And and that's the thing, is like, you know, when we stand on business, you know, you gotta stand on business. Yeah, like yes, the price is the price, but this is what I can give you for your budget. Um I remember when I first started out, and any job was a good job. Yes. That's what I thought, because I didn't know anything about business until you guys got your hands on me. And there are other people who are starting out and who are great and who have a great service and deserve to be paid better and are willing to take those jobs that are not gonna make them any money at all. Um and I I feel I feel sad for the businesses that end up getting taken advantage of. And it hurts my heart that institutions, like I'm not even talking about individuals, institutions that have access to funds, want to undercut and get the smallest price possible from the smallest guy possible. Like you, I if if I had access to all that money, I would feel so good. Throwing it at somebody like us. Here you go. Yes, yes, because I know every dollar that goes into your business is gonna create two dollars and thirty-five cents somewhere else. Every time I would feel really good about that. Yes, and m bringing that that same energy into like you should feel good about your purchasing.

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Adrian Anderson 12:32

Yeah, feel good about your purchasing, and know where it's coming from, you know, that's where those dollars come from. You know, we're making it from scratch. Yeah. If anything ever happened, we know where to go to to get, you know, hey, this is where this happened, and you know, it's it's I don't know, I don't know the exact words, but it's hard. It's hard.

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Yessica Holguin 12:51

And it's not like it's charity, right? Like they're getting amazing food. Exactly. The quality of the food is incredible, it's local, it's authentic. And so, yeah, I often talk uh about um I talk to organizations that want to support local businesses, and I'm like, yes, but supporting also means being able to pay what they're worth.

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What Real Support Looks Like

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Yessica Holguin 13:12

So yeah, what does supporting a local business actually mean uh to you all um in giving you the opportunity to submit a quote?

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Adrian Anderson 13:20

Not forgetting we're here afterwards. You know, after the catering, we're still here, you know, we still have bills to pay just like everybody else. Um I think a lot of people forget that, you know, because yeah, the catering is great. We're like, okay, give us a call, and we don't hear anything, it's crickets, you know. We also do home, you know, we take care of your family at home as well. You know, it's not just at the job, you know, and I think a lot of people forget that.

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Silvia Hernandez 13:42

Yeah, yeah. I think it's different, for example, in my case, it's different when I decide and and I take the decision to help any organization or to found race, or you know, I do a lot of of those things. Uh, but it's different when I do it. When they they let me know the purpose of the things, I I tell them I can work with. But it's different when they order and uh they don't really know what my business does. You know, so I will ask maybe make my more questions. Doesn't hurt me if they make me more questions. I will be happy to explain what I do, and maybe they will understand. Maybe people will understand if they ask us more questions.

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Adrian Anderson 14:25

No one can explain it better than you, right?

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Silvia Hernandez 14:28

Yes, yes. And also, like Jonita says, uh when, for example, when someone asks me for a proposal, I have a question in my inquiry form that says your budget. I am not asked the budget because I want to charge you that money. I ask you because I want to know what I can offer you for that. Your budget. Yes, so that way I can offer you good things for the right price. But it's the it's different when they tell don't tell me the budget, and then when I send the estimate, they say, oh, you know, it's like it's too expensive. They even give you the courtesy of telling you that. Right.

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Johnitta Media 15:06

How much the budget is? Well, you know, um when you're shopping, you're shopping around, right? People shop around, which is great. You know, there's so many amazing local options to choose from. So you shop around, you cast a big net, and you ask for lots and lots of proposals, and not a robot, no AI over here. Us. We are sitting behind a computer at late at night after we put our kids to bed, creating the proposal for you. And whether you go with me or not, that is totally fine. But if you could give me the courtesy to let me know, hey, this was not within our budget, or we chose to go for somebody else, because I don't want to feel like I'm I'm begging you. Right. Like, hey, just following up, just following up, just following up. And and you know, um just remembering, you know, if if you say, I want to support business, small-owned businesses, local businesses, minority-owned businesses, women-owned businesses, actually truly support us. Do it. Um, ask for your inquiry for like you're gonna do catering for a large event. This is just, I think, like not a lot of people do catering all the time. Catering is not like going to a restaurant. So, you know, it let's do have time for planning. Yeah, two weeks a week at least, because like Sylvia said, I'm the executive chef, I'm the CEO, I'm the marketing manager. That sounds fabulous, but it's literally just me. So you know, I'm I'm procuring locally as well. I'm going to local farms to get your produce to put before you, you know, it's a lot of a lot of work and it's not a lot of people doing it. Um, that's one, letting us, you know, having that open line of communication, you're not gonna hurt our feelings by saying you're going somebody else. If anything, that lets us know our books can be open for another job. Exactly. Um and you know, if if the asking price is outside of your budget, ask for what the business can provide that is within your budget. Please do not ask for the same thing in your budget. That's money, you're right. Oh, yes, it happens all the time. All the time. Can we please get the exact same thing for the exact same amount of people, but for 50% less. And if I could have done it for 50% less, that's what the quote would have said. You know, the quote takes into things way outside the food. The gas, which is every time you go to the gas station, more and more and more. The rent for our kitchens. You want professional catering. Professional catering comes with professional costs. We have to, my my kitchen rent is more than my house rent. Um, insurance. I am licensed and insured, and all those things cost money. Okay. And not only that, you are getting years of expertise. I've been cooking since I was seven years old. I don't log in, but I've been cooking over three decades. You know, over three decades I have been cooking. And not only that, you're getting hospitality, you're getting my culture. You're getting things that you cannot put a price tag on. And that's not something you'll ever get at a large corporate business.

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Yessica Holguin 18:16

Very
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The True Cost Behind A Quote

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Yessica Holguin 18:17

good. Wait a second, wait a second. Very well-shead. Yeah, we don't often think about the impact that that has in the local business, unfortunately, right? We should. Yeah, everyone should. Um, we wouldn't go to a corporate chain and ask them, I don't think your hamburger is worth that much because it really isn't. Yeah. Can I just pay half? So, why would we think that it's okay to ask local businesses? Tell us more about the impact that that has on your local, uh, on your business, transportation, staffing. That comes out of cost somewhere. And so, what can be the impact of that?

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Veronica Sare 18:54

Like you said, it can vary depending on what that cost was and what we were planning and how that moves forward, because then that comes out of our pocket. If you tell me that you want to purchase 100 plates, um, but you don't want to pay the catering fee, the your tax exempt, which is great, you know, we'll work with everything that you have, but then that comes out of our pocket because where are we getting the supplies, the wood, the um the charcoal, the you know, that's all these miscellaneous items that it's not line item in our uh uh quotes because if we start line itemizing every single item, you would immediately be turned off. That's not professional, that's not what we do, that's not why we're doing this, and it's not to be nitpicky, but it's to ensure that everything comes together in that one bite that makes it perfect, where you don't have to think about those little nuances that they're put together for you behind the scenes, you know.

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Silvia Hernandez 20:01

Like in my business, for example, I use everything is compostable in the cafe, the bowls, the lids, everything. I also make a sign in my place that if you don't need the lid, let me know. I I want to save the planet too. I wanna do something. I don't know if it's small or big, but I want to do something. So all those things cost. Have a cost. So if I think if maybe people, I keep saying, if the people know a little bit more about our our business, they will understand how or why we charge what we charge.

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Adrian Anderson 20:34

Yeah.

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Johnitta Media 20:35

There there is a reason why most of us that are sitting on this panel are everything within our business. If we were if I think if we were paid more equitably, it'd be really easy to hire people. It would be really, really easy to hire people, which would also impact the local economy. Um, the ability to hire and keep people on and give people benefits and things like that.

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Yessica Holguin 21:01

So even more reason.

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Veronica Sare 21:03

Yeah, even more reason to pay. Oh, absolutely, you know, something to delegate where we're not having to run the business, run our family, at the same time run and get supplies, you know. I mean, it's it's an all-out um job when you're called for catering and you have to figure in all the different ways that you need to go. And you know, sometimes he has to go this way and I go this way because you know, we only have a certain amount of time before we can pull everything together. That makes sense. Yeah.

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Yessica Holguin 21:33

And until we can go to the gas station station and say, I'm not gonna pay the money. Oh, yes.

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Adrian Anderson 21:50

Would you want somebody to come to your job and tell you, I'm gonna, you know, I'm gonna give you less because you didn't do all your work today? They're not gonna do that. They're not gonna be like, oh no, it's okay. It's not gonna happen. Still want their pay, whether they work the whole day or not, or whether they do the full amount of work or not, you know, they're gonna want to be paid for it.

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Johnitta Media 22:06

Or better yet, your boss being like, Oh, um, your paycheck was due this Friday, but um I'm gonna wait. You're gonna get it. I'm not sure. Right. Yeah, I'm not sure.

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Adrian Anderson 22:17

And I'm gonna give you less money on top of it all.

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Johnitta Media 22:19

I can't give you a day.

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Adrian Anderson 22:20

Right.

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Johnitta Media 22:21

But on the on the contract that everybody agreed to, right? It stated we were gonna have a deposit two weeks prior to the service, we are gonna be paid day of service, and you get to sit sit back and relax and enjoy your day, which is what catering ultimately does. It does. Not only are we providing food, we're providing comfort, we're providing ease of mind. You don't have to worry about anything. That's what I tell people. Oh, you want me to help you do no? When you hire Mama Jaws, you are entrusting me to take care of everything for you. This is a luxury experience. You know what I'm saying? So be prepared to support that person, pay them on time. You wouldn't, yeah, you wouldn't go to any other store and be like, oh, I'm gonna actually go get my burger and sit down here, and then I'm gonna come afterwards. Right. And I'm gonna pay you whenever I feel. A month later. Yeah, a month later. This is not a net 30 account, baby. It says pay, do our receipt.

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Payment Timing And Cash Flow Reality

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Yessica Holguin 23:23

It's little things that perhaps um institutional buyers don't think about, but the importance of paying on time early if you can. Because it's not like you'll are sitting on thousands and thousands of dollars to continue to float these contracts.

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Adrian Anderson 23:38

Our bills keep coming, they they don't stop.

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Johnitta Media 23:40

Yeah, I saw a s statistic somewhere that said uh many small businesses um have about six weeks of floating capital. Meaning if there's no money coming in for about six weeks that we can manage, and uh uh outside of that, a lot of us are really, really struggling. So it is super important, you know, to to pay those bills and and um just bring uh deprogram, take the time to do deprogram ourselves from this like super capitalistic colonial mindset of I need to get everything, I need to extract everything for as cheap as I possibly can, not consider the person behind the labor. And if I can get it for, you know, pennies on the dollar, then that's perfectly fine. And I'm willing to sacrifice them. Because on the on the other side, you there there's not there's not a sacrifice. It's you know, you're you're getting a really good deal. And um there's we're we're not, you know, I don't know, old navy. You can't put up a sign every every you know two weeks be like 50% off 50%. The reason they can do that is because they are already severely overcharging you, upcharging you. That's why they're able to give you a sale. We are pricing you fairly, and the price is the price. We can't give you the sale on the fair price. Right.

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Right Sizing Orders To Fit Budgets

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Johnitta Media 25:06

Yeah.

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Yessica Holguin 25:06

So let's help them um do the right thing. So if an organization budget doesn't match your price or your proposal, what can they do instead?

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Johnitta Media 25:15

Um be prepared to expect something smaller. You know, um, you may not get a full buffet, but you can get heavy appetizers. You may not have a, you know, multiple options and a full spread charcuterie situation with decor. You may have drop-off catering money, you know, and it's just understanding what's within your budget and um moving in the ways that you have to for your budget. Because I know for a lot of nonprofit organizations, their budgets have dramatically changed over the last 18 months, and we are so understanding. So it's like you might not be able to get catering for every staff event. Right, you may have the budget to get it for every other staff event. Um, things like that really help when we can just adjust our expectations um and not want to get blood from a stone, right? Like my mom used to say.

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Silvia Hernandez 26:14

I think all of us, and I talk for all of us, I think all of us can adapt a budget and give them you know good food for your dance. If we focus on food, maybe they can take imagine uh someone is charging you for the special cloth, tablecloth or something. Maybe you we can have different tablecloth and focus on food. Yes, you know, exactly. Or maybe the warming stuff. Maybe you can have your own warming stuff. I will not charge you for that. You know, I remember when I started, I didn't charge for the externals and things. I didn't. I really didn't. I didn't notice. I bring them and I didn't notice. And then when I start charging on the on the on the um um chafing things, I noticed I was losing a lot of money. Oh yeah. So now I add it, and people don't expect to add it, but I think yes, we can do it. I think we can do it. It's just up to us. Right. We can understand everything.

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Adrian Anderson 27:13

I think the one thing, especially when we first start out, nobody's telling us this is what you need to do. This is how you need to do it. We all figured this out on our own, am I wrong? I mean, we all did that, you know, and we learned, right? We know we need to get uh something up front, you know, instead of oh, I'll just get it when I see you, you know. But we know, hey, we need to be able to pay for this food that we're bringing you, you know, because we're all buying it fresh, right? That means we're not buying it a week ahead of time, we're buying it maybe a day ahead of time, you know. Depending on your event. I'll buy I might even buy it that morning. Get everything seasoned on the smoker so that way when you get it, you're smelling it as soon as I walk in the door, you know. You're feeling it as soon as you walk in the door. I've always said you smell what you're gonna eat, you know. And if it tastes the same way it smells, I don't think you have a problem.

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Final Advice And Where To Learn More

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Yessica Holguin 27:59

Well, we are almost out of time, and so uh with one quick closing remark is what do you wish professionals and organizational uh organizations understood when they're ordering free meal?

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Silvia Hernandez 28:11

Um good question.

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Adrian Anderson 28:14

Let us know a budget. I think the first thing is let us know a budget, you know. I think a lot of people are shy about that. I don't know why, you know, it's not their money, right? Just tell us, hey, I got a thousand dollars, fine. You know, let's make that work. And we can send you an uh uh an invoice of what you what your budget is, even from most likely under, yeah. Um, and then go from there. You know, I think it'll be a lot easier.

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Yessica Holguin 28:36

Great. Well, thank you all so much for being here today. We're really excited to continue this conversation because it's in our best interest to ensure that our local businesses continue to be strong. And thank you, guests. Thank you all for being here today. For more information on Center for Community Wealth, including our free services for entrepreneurs, small businesses, cooperatives, and community-owned and benefiting real estate projects. Please visit our website, communitywealth.org, or find us on social media, CCW Denver on Instagram and Facebook, and CCWB on LinkedIn. Thanks for being here.

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Narrator Julie Jackson 29:10

The Wealth We Build is produced by Center for Community Wealth and hosted by Jessica Oggeen. This episode's featured guests were Adrian Anderson and Veronica Sayer from Meets and Sweets, Sylvia Hernandez from La Catrina Grill, Janita Medina from Mama Jaws Catering, and Jervis DeChico from Center for Community Wealth. This episode was directed, produced, and edited by Julie Jackson, with camera crew and teleprompter support from Joel Newton and Marcella Gallette. Music and graphics by Motion Array with theme song Ply a Trip by Diego Martinez. Special thanks to Patrick Jackson and Elena Vasconez and Center for Community Wealth Board of Directors, Asia Dorsey, Kay Von, Kalatbari Limaki, C. Jeff Shanahan. For more information, visit our website, communitywealth.org, filmed and recorded at Denver Community Media. All rights reserved.

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